I just want everyone to know STK started playing on the COD4 server because I invited them. I work with a lot of the guys in the STK Clan and they are all nice guys who just like me and you like to come home from work relax and play COD4 or for me DOD also. Anyway, they kept coming back to play and also told there clan mates to come here because it was a good server, nice ppl and fair play.
But after being on the server tonight I watched them leave 1 by 1, because they were told to use Auto Assign when joining. I also noticed another clan D5 playing tonight who also were all playing on 1 side.
Not for nothing, but these guys did nothing wrong. The server was pretty filled up and even if they hit auto assign and because there were so many of them they probably would have ended up on the same side.
Even if they were on the same side, the teams were pretty much even in scoring.
Maybe its because I know these guys that I'm making this post, but like I said they did nothing wrong and the server was cleared out in minutes.
I think if a clan kept coming back to play, that would be a good sign. Just because they had an STK tag doesnt mean the teams were uneven.
I will respond because I was the one to bring up the issue in the server.
This isn't the first time STK has come to our server and all joined the same side every single map 5-10 maps in a row. It drives the regular pubbers away. Most feel the teams are stacked, even when skillwise they may not be. The other issue is that it is against server rules for OWS or another clan to all join the same side. We hit auto assign and we expect everyone else to. There are several reasons for it.
1. It is just good server etique.
2. So the regular pubbers that join our server can come and have fun and not feel like another clan or us are stacking the teams and using vent to kick thier ass.
3. The regular pubbers are where we draw our recruits from and they take priority over another clan that wants to join our server and use vent to kick the hell out of the pubbers we are trying to recruit.
4. Our servers are full every night because we have rules... and admins that enforce them. We kick asshats and people who use racial slurs, and generally people that need to go back to playing CS:S
5. Our servers are also full everynight because OWS doesn't all join one side everytime we hop on and play. We aren't there to just kick the hell out of everyone us against them. Most feel it is a very fair enviroment to play in and with nice people. Which is why they keep coming back.
I have seen clans that only will play on a team together. Have you seen their servers at night? They are dead every single night. No one wants to join a server and have the teams stacked against them and get thier ass kicked map in and map out. They just simply won't come back.
So what happens then to these clans? They have to join other peoples servers to play, and when they do they all join the same side and do the same shit on our servers. Which leads to people leaving. etc...
While it would be nice to make an exception for some people COD4 is so much different that DOD. When you let one clan do it, others think it is acceptable behavior on the server then they do it, just like d5 tonight.
And this isn't an issue of them really hitting auto assign and me just being a dick. They simply aren't hitting auto assign. It is pretty easy to see how the teams fill up, while holding down tab. Plus it just isn't statistically possible that all 6 of them hit auto assign 4 maps in a row and all 6 make it on the same team 4 maps in a row with 25+ people playing.
I have included the server chat log for reading, it covers about 5 maps worth of play time. The final warning was on the 5th map.
I gave them all individual Console warnings several times before this chat log was started. I gave then in game text message warnings, also over ingame voice. Before each map ended and after the next map started when they were still all joining the same team. They left before and admin action was taken.
[STK]-Ape: gg
[STK]Outcast|*=: GG
[STK]-TheMisfit: gg
[STK]Outcast|*=: hgahahaha
[STK]Outcast|*=: 65
[=1=]Plauge: LAST WARNING
[=1=]Plauge: NEXT MAP HIT AUTO
[STK]-TheMisfit: just keep them in A
[STK]-Ape: lol
[=1=]Plauge: EHLI
[=1=]Plauge: GG
[=1=]Ladyyanks: gg
[STK]-TheMisfit: gg
[=1=]Plauge: GG
[=1=]Ladyyanks: gg
[STK]-TheMisfit: gg
[=1=]Plauge: Hit auto assign please
[STK]-TheMisfit: yeah, 201, 173 is very lopsided
CoD RT 9.1[plauge]: LAST WARNING! Server Rule: Hit Auto Assign Thanks!
CoD RT 9.1[plauge]: Hit Auto Assign, Server Rule
|Sa|LaBam*: SHH
CoD RT 9.1[plauge]: LAST WARNING! Server Rule: Hit Auto Assign Thanks!
[STK]Outcast|*=: MAYBE WE SHOULD JUST PLAY ELSEWHERE DUDE, WE'RE HITTING AUTO ASSIGN, STOP TALKING TO US LIKE WERE 9 YEARS OLD
[=1=]Plauge: Hitting auto assign it is impossible for all 6 of you to be on the same team 3 maps in a row, it just doesn't happen
[=1=]Plauge: I am also talking about d5
Stone_Cutter: just boot em
[=1=]Plauge: next map will determine if everyone can follow rules
[STK]-TheMisfit: wonder if we actually hit it, like i did this mapside, and we end up like this
[7s]Matrimony: chance will have spoken
[STK]-TheMisfit: micromanaging as an admin isnt the greatest quality in the world, if the maps were lopsided it'd make perfect sense
[=1=]Plauge: I watched everyone join the reason it was lopsided is because d5 all joined the same side thus the next 5 people that joined all went to the other team
[STK]-TheMisfit: ok
[STK]-TheMisfit: and the match is close
[STK]-TheMisfit: everyone is having fun
[STK]-TheMisfit: and 1 person is complaining
[STK]-TheMisfit: and 1 person is complaining
[=1=]Plauge: it isn't about the match being close or not, it is server rules, we the OWS do not all join the same side when we play so we expect others not to do
[=1=]Plauge: if you always want to play on the same team goto your server
[STK]Outcast|*=: **** this, i'm going to another server
[STK]-TheMisfit: well, since lady is a friend, we were trying to hang out with her
[STK]-TheMisfit: and help populate a server
[=1=]Plauge: then fine hang out, but hit auto, that is simple
[STK]-TheMisfit: curious, do u ever speed?
[STK]-TheMisfit: i mean, thats a rule
[=1=]Plauge: that isn't helping your argument
Recon691: A
[STK]-TheMisfit: i mean, thats a rule
[=1=]Plauge: that isn't helping your argument
Recon691: A
[=1=]Plauge: me no
[STK]-TheMisfit: well, its this kind of over adminning that hurts the game, like i said, if the matches are close i dont see much of a reason for the rule to exist
[STK]-TheMisfit: in theory, you could have a bad clan join and get rolled, it'd be no different
[=1=]Plauge: well because if you do then the next clan does it, example d5, well it sets a bad example of behavior that is against server rules
[=1=]Plauge: people then think it is acceptable behavior
[STK]-TheMisfit: and whats the reason behind it being a rule to begin with?
[STK]-TheMisfit: ur against friends playing w/each other on the same team?
[=1=]Plauge: Please stay but hit auto assign it isn't a big deal if you click that little button
[7s]Matrimony: sry plague, didn't know it was you
Stone_Cutter: who cares? it the server rule. deal with it
[=1=]Plauge: np
[STK]-TheMisfit: dont matter, we'll go elsewhere, that way i wont break any cardinal rules
Stone_Cutter: please
[=1=]Plauge: do you have your own server?
[STK]-DuB: yes 2
[=1=]Plauge: is anyone ever on it?
[7s]Matrimony: ...
[STK]-DuB: we use them for matches
[=1=]Plauge: do you all join the same team to play pubbers
[=1=]Plauge: exactly
[=1=]Plauge: no one wants to play on your server b/c you stack the teams when u play
[=1=]Plauge: it isn't nice
[7s]Matrimony: yay we can play now and not debate
Stone_Cutter: good riddance to poor sports
[STK]-DuB: they don't play on them because they are not open to pubbers
SPECWARRIOR: gga
[=1=]Ladyyanks: can I ask a question
[=1=]Plauge: yes
[=1=]Plauge: of course
[=1=]Plauge: XFIRE
Deltaforce367: yep
[7s]Matrimony: 10-4
d5_D3L1R1UM: in the crotch
Stone_Cutter: gj guys
[=1=]Plauge: gg
[=1=]Plauge: gg
Safrus: so much for not playing on the same team :P
[=1=]Plauge: gg
Lump_Lump: gg
Stone_Cutter: nice
Stone_Cutter: gj team
Safrus: good thing you chased of stk
Safrus: wouldn't want clans on the SAME TEAM
PonSkippa: my team was afk
WS6384: IM BACK NOW
[=1=]Plauge: uav
[=1=]Plauge: gg
Lump_Lump: gg
Kaden: gg
TakeOutMAMMIE: gg
[=1=]Plauge: gg
Lump_Lump: gg
Kaden: gg
TakeOutMAMMIE: gg
[=1=]Plauge: lolw
[=1=]Plauge: heli
True Blue: lol
Recon691: aaaaaawd
TakeOutMAMMIE: weeee
[=1=]Plauge: gg
Lump_Lump: gg
[=1=]union3476: gg
TakeOutMAMMIE: gg
[=1=]NanoHertz: gg
True Blue: lol
On a point yes it does cause distraction and it does cause some to leave the server while this is going on but 5-10 minutes later the server was back up to 30+ people.
Also,
We all know that this isn't the first time STK has been on the server. If I remember right we have temp banned a couple of them for repeated racial slurs, but that was several months ago.
__________________
Full O.W...What? Member.
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[14:08] [RFA] DirtyPete: you guys playing while I'm at work pisses me off so much It's like unicorns vomiting chocolate rainbows all over me as I float through a lollipop garden on a magic carpet.
Or perhaps leave it here so those being discussed can read/reply?
Myself, Outcast, and Pillsbury work together, and work with LadyYanks in our industry, we were invited into your server, and have had a good time playing there. We're mostly east/canada, but I have members in Texas and Mexico that ping well there, so its been a good compromise.
STK has been around since the UT99 mod "TacticalOps", which was their attempt to compete with cs1.6. I've adminned and ran servers for UT99, TO, Quake2, the entire BF series, CS:S, and now we've moved on to COD4. We play this game for fun and on a competitive level, though I'd still consider us more of a 'casual clan' than a competitive clan. Actually, given our mix, we're not that far off from your group. Our demographic is 18-45, average age around 25-28, and have played together for 6-8 years. I'm a former site admin at .:NATO - North American Tournament Organization:., adminning TacOps, VietCong, DesertCombat, and over 5,000 active members in their peak.
I do understand the rigors of adminning a server.
I also view a good admin as someone similar to a referee in a pro-sports game. "The best refs are the one's you never hear about" - They're the refs that oversee things, keep it in order, but dont get overly involved or effect the outcome of the game.
If auto assign is a rule, fine, I understand. But last night, looking at d5, it wasn't going to be easy getting the teams split up. In fact, on the last 2 mapsides I did hit auto-assign, and ended up paired up with my clanmates (I can't vouch for them hitting auto-assign, and depending on how d5 joined, it may have been a moot point).
But there you had not 1, but 2 clans joining on the same team. Why? Because as a gaming clan we have fun when we play alongside each other, working as a team. I think it'd be safe to assume that d5 wanted to do the same thing, and if you join any of the 12K servers out there for COD4, you'll find more of the same. If we're in the server and the talent level is obviously skewed, and we're rolling the other team 250-0 in HQ, or 200-50 on DOM, then I completely understand asking guys to split it up. BF2cc used to allow you to force a switch on someone after their next death, which was great if you wanted to move 1-2 guys over to the other side to help balance things out. UT99/TO had 'auto balance' that did the same automatically. But on the flip side, read up on World In Conflicts attempts to curb clan stacking , and see how its negatively effected the game.
Now to your points:
Quote:
1. It is just good server etique.
Perhaps, but so is letting people play, so is laying off spamming admin messages over and over and over. Auto Assign, I got it, and mid round, to be honest, spamming it 10 times in a row won't help, the teams were set at that point.
Quote:
2. So the regular pubbers that join our server can come and have fun and not feel like another clan or us are stacking the teams and using vent to kick thier ass.
Right, 'cause regular pubbers are the lifeblood of gaming servers? The server exists because your clan set it up, a clan. I can bring 10 guys into your sever at the drop of a hat, as other clans can as well. Remember, MP gaming is fed by clans, fed by competitive play. Trying to make sure the casual pubber doesnt get all bent out of shape is fine, but dont turn your back on the very reason your and all mp gaming servers exist.
Quote:
3. The regular pubbers are where we draw our recruits from and they take priority over another clan that wants to join our server and use vent to kick the hell out of the pubbers we are trying to recruit.
Good point. But look at the quality of recruit that comes from this as well. You're denying yourself people that are "up to the challenge", instead, you'll get the more delicate types that complain first time out when something isn't going their way in a pub. And if you play on a competitive level, well, I don't even need to address how poisonous that could be.
Quote:
4. Our servers are full every night because we have rules... and admins that enforce them. We kick asshats and people who use racial slurs, and generally people that need to go back to playing CS:S
All servers have rules, its the one's that over-manage that end up being hurt. Look at bf2, all those "no jumping" servers, or "no c4 buggying" servers ended up being the ones with dwindling populations. I HATE c4 buggys, I dont like it when I come around a corner and someone hops over my shots and takes me out. But instead of reulating against this, I figured out how to beat it, its made me a stronger player and made the game more fun for me. Now we have COD4 servers with rules against jumping, airstrikes in the 1st 30 seconds, nades in the 1st 30 seconds, rules against martyrdom, etc.. where does that stop?? Kicking asshats, kicking for cursing/racial slurs, cheating, makes great sense, and makes a great admin. Not spamming messages and harassing teams when the actual balance was VERY GOOD.
Quote:
5. Our servers are also full everynight because OWS doesn't all join one side everytime we hop on and play. We aren't there to just kick the hell out of everyone us against them. Most feel it is a very fair enviroment to play in and with nice people. Which is why they keep coming back.
In my exp. in the specific server we're discussing, I've seen no more than 3-4 OWS in at one time, usually more like 1-2. You have multiple games, multiple servers. Your servers are full because you have a history. Clans like The Perfect General, OBC, etc.. I could go on and on, have the same successes, and in many cases they lay off micro-managing and let people play.
I'll tell my guys to auto-join if thats the case, or we'll move on to another server. I have had fun on the server, I like the fact you mix the gametypes (playing endless tdm gets boring), and I'd certainly like to see our clan welcome on your server. However, its your choice.
First off, we don't have a main screen for people to view the rules when they join like we do with our other games servers. So there is no way people will no they must hit auto assign or any of our other rules in general. Is there anyway to add one when someone joins?
Second, were there any other admins online while this was going on? If so, why weren't they backing up plauge? I don't even know who our admins are besides plauge, how does one go about getting the power?
Third, we should not forget the fact the Ladyyanks helped seed the server with a bunch of her friends, regardless if they were on the same team. Even if they are on the same team doesn't guarantee they will pwn everyone. Also, they can easily take off the tag and change there name to appear as a pubber and be on the same team again and again. How many of you have changed your name to something goofy and played on another server with a buddy just to have fun. For those pubbers that were playing, if they joined another clan, why would they ever come back now with friends after watching the way we just treated that clan.
Thats all it is, FUN. Friends playing with one another, in this case as well, they needed a server to practice on since they don't have a pub server. Again, this could have been handled alot better, just some things we need to work on.
Third, we should not forget the fact the Ladyyanks helped seed the server with a bunch of her friends, regardless if they were on the same team. Even if they are on the same team doesn't guarantee they will pwn everyone. Also, they can easily take off the tag and change there name to appear as a pubber and be on the same team again and again. How many of you have changed your name to something goofy and played on another server with a buddy just to have fun. For those pubbers that were playing, if they joined another clan, why would they ever come back now with friends after watching the way we just treated that clan.
Well said. Understand that as a large (50+ members) casual gaming clan we have 2 distinct tiers of players, and the one's that frequent your server tend to fall more on the casual type than our more competitive guys. I am one of only a couple guys that play in our leagues that join your server. Most of my league guys dont pub much at all, instead we scrim and they play in PUGS.
We have 2 servers, a 32 man server in StLouis and a 12 man match server in NYC. We've been sponsored for BF2, we have had 4-6 servers running at once. Due to heavy competitive play at TWL (we dont go near CAL) we've had to use both for matches and really haven't taken the time to set the pub back up for pub play, with 12K servers its just as easy to join another clans server and have fun.
I can understand everyone's position here. However, it is your choice to follow the clan rules. If you don't like them, you can play on another server. I have seen when good players from the same team all join the same side, and the entire other team pretty much drops out of frustration. So, either way, thats not a good thing. Of course, we want to keep the good players around. I enjoy playing against people who give a great challenge. The fact is we, as a clan, really don't have that many rules to follow in-game. If those few rules can't be followed and aren't enforced, mayhem can pursue. There is nothing worse than playing in a server that is not policed, it is a mess, and usually not fun. Lady, at the same time I feel you here, when friends of mine from the server are playing and they throw out a curse here and there I don't want to say anything to them, because they are my friends and I don't want to seem like a watchdog. However, a line must be drawn somewhere I feel. Hitting "auto" is really not a lot to ask, and if they cannot do this simple request, maybe they should play elsewhere because those are the rules. Honestly, I don't really care that much and again, I can see both sides here, but breaking the rules for a few curse words is different then letting a great team play on the same side, where the overall game play for everyone is affected.
Just my 2 cents. Love all you guys though.
I run admin usually when I'm on and no one else is running it. ServerScan 4.6.4? or somthin like that.
From reading the above posts and being an Admin in my old clan I would think that as long as auto-balance is on that should take care of the requirement. Or unless...Like Gigantor mentioned:
"First off, we don't have a main screen for people to view the rules when they join like we do with our other games servers. So there is no way people will no they must hit auto assign or any of our other rules in general. Is there anyway to add one when someone joins?"
As far as Ladyyanks, she was doing the server a good deed in seeding the server and that should not be ignored. That would leave a sour taste, inviting her friends in to help seed then, they are informed of the rules. I believe that 1. the rule is stated in the opening of the game, 2. Auto-balance should constantly be on, this should alleviate any confusion on anyones part. This should be a game that anyone can enjoy and that the game can't be micro-managed without heart ache.
Last comment: This should be brought up to the higher-ups to over look this glitch and to remedy.
STK on OWS Server
